Lila Rose debates podcast host Suzanne Lambert at Georgetown

Live Action president and founder Lila Rose debated TikTok influencer and host of the "Mean But True" podcast, Suzanne Lambert, at Georgetown University on Thursday evening. Lambert is a former pro-lifer, a comedian, and a self-proclaimed mean-girl liberal.

Key Takeaways:

• Live Action president and founder Lila Rose and podcast host Suzanne Lambert met at Georgetown during March for Life week to debate the question, "Should abortion be legal?"

• The two debated whether human life begins at fertilization, bodily autonomy, the abortion/marriage disconnect, the natural responsibilities of parents, and more.

The Details:

Heated Abortion Debate at Georgetown - Lila Rose vs. Suzanne Lambert

The Reality of Human Life

Rose began the debate, saying, "The case for why abortion should be illegal is simple. ... First, it is always wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human life. I hope we can all agree on that — it's always wrong to intentionally kill a human life. Second, abortion is the intentional killing of innocent people.... Therefore, abortion is wrong and should be illegal. Some people may disagree with the second premise — abortion intentionally kills an innocent human life."

To those people, Rose pointed out biological reality — that at fertilization, a new human being comes into existence, a human child with her own genetic code who only requires time and nourishment to grow.

"[T]here is no doubt," said Rose, "from the first moments of its existence, an embryo from human sperm and egg is in fact, a human being."

She went on to explain that at six weeks, there is measurable brain activity — and by eight weeks, the baby can respond to touch. "The disagreement [on abortion]," she said, "is about whether these and all humans deserve legal protection and to have their basic human rights protected."

'Forced' childbirth and 'bodily autonomy'

Lambert countered Rose's argument with the question of "whether or not the government should be able to force someone to have a child."

"My answer is a resounding, 'No'," Lambert said. "Abortion should be legal, but I haven't always felt that way." She shared that she was pro-life until she faced an unplanned pregnancy herself and took the abortion pill, claiming that it was what was "best" for her.

She then argued that the supposed "attack on women's right to choose" was conjured up by men who sought to block "freedom and power" for women.

"The anti-choice movement," she claimed, "is predicated on the paternalist perceptions it often has that women are incapable of making choices... The question, 'Should abortion be legal,' posits that only pregnant women and girls might be able to say, 'No.' Why is pregnancy the only situation where bodily autonomy disappears? I reject that fully...."

In reality, every law tells individuals what they can or cannot do with their bodies (in other words, no one has complete bodily autonomy), but in some ways, pregnancy is a special situation. In what other circumstance is a woman legally allowed to intentionally, and with premeditation, kill an innocent human being?

The answer to this question is something Rose delved into later in the debate.

The marriage/abortion disconnect

Rose countered:

"First of all, the framing used by Suzanne is that whether or not the government should force parents, should force women to have children — and we agree on this. I agree with bodily autonomy. I don't think anyone should force anyone against their will to get pregnant. I agree that we have the right to protect our bodies and to care for our bodies."

However, Rose noted that when a woman is pregnant, she is carrying another human being, whose life "began at the moment of fertilization."

"Once you are a parent then you have responsibilities," Rose said. "And those responsibilities include the safe transfer of that baby to somebody else if you're not able to care for him. That's why parents can be charged with child abuse if they don't take care of their child."

She continued:

"The reality is abortion has always been a tool of the powerful to oppress the powerless and has always been a tool of those who are irresponsible to reject the sacredness of human life and the responsibilities that come with sex.

... This is the tragic truth: nine out of every 10 women who have abortions today, all of them, their own stories, all of them unique, all of them having their own challenges.... Nine out of every 10 though, have one thing in common: they were not married when they had the abortion. They got pregnant as single mothers.

The reality of the abortion crisis is a consequence of another crisis — our failure to take personal responsibility, our failure to care about the consequences of our actions, and our failure to see sex as sacred and putting it where it belongs in a lifelong love and marriage and a commitment that fosters the kind of family that every child deserves to be born into.

So for these reasons — for the fact that society needs to embrace the real vision of love, putting sex back into marriage, and most importantly, protect the most vulnerable, abortion must be made illegal."

Parental responsibilities

Lambert went on to claim that life doesn't begin at fertilization and that personhood has never been defined as beginning at fertilization, adding that when life begins is a "moral question," not a "biological one."

She also claimed that no one except a pregnant woman is "required to use their body to sustain another."

Rose pointed out that this is not true:

"[E]very abortion is forcing a child's body to be destroyed, and that's what it is — forced death, forced delivery of a child.

...[P]arents are actually required by law to use their bodies to care for their children. And this is something that gets lost a lot in conversations on abortion.

But if I'm the mother of a newborn, I have a responsibility to not leave that newborn and let him die. I have a responsibility to not leave that newborn in a trash can...."

The debate continued as Rose and Lambert discussed contraception, sex outside of marriage, and legal parameters surrounding abortion. Amid the conversation, Lambert said, "Sorry, I'm a comedian. I don't know why they invited me here."

Watch the debate in full here.