Ben Shapiro to Charlamagne tha God: When a human life begins isn't subjective
When Ben Shapiro joined Charlamagne tha God on "The Breakfast Club" on Monday to discuss his new book, "Lions & Scavengers: The True Story of America," they discussed abortion — with Shapiro breaking down the pro-life argument to one basic fact.
Key Takeaways:
Ben Shapiro appeared on "The Breakfast Club" radio show on Monday when the topic of abortion was mentioned.
Shapiro and hosts Charlamagne tha God, Jess Hilarious, and DJ Envy discussed abortion as it relates to a woman's choice, when life begins, and cases of rape.
Shapiro boiled down the arguments in favor of life to one fact: life begins at fertilization. He explained that for pro-lifers, every human being deserves protection from being intentionally killed — even those humans who are still growing in their mothers' wombs.
The Details:
During the conversation, Shapiro was clear that the definition of life is concrete, not subjective, as cohost Jess Hilarious argued.
"It's very, like, per person," claimed Hilarious, regarding when abortion might be considered acceptable. She said she personally believes abortions should be carried out early in pregnancy, but that she wasn't willing to tell any other woman when she can or can't have an abortion.
Shapiro responded:
You're talking about what a woman should be allowed to do. I'm talking about the definition of personhood of the separate person inside the woman.
I don't think that the subjective definition of life is how we define life. Meaning that, you being uncomfortable with a woman having an abortion in the ninth month, you're saying that just because you're uncomfortable with it, that doesn't mean that you should stop a woman from doing it.
My point is that life has a definition.
We all agree, for example, that a one-month-old baby should not be drowned. Right? We all agree on that. And that's not up to the personal ... and the question is, well, why? Because we now understand that the one-month-old baby — everyone agrees with this, right?... except for Peter Singer at Princeton — that a one-month-old baby has an independent interest in life. That is a life that is separate from the woman and requires protection.
Once life is defined, then it no longer matters "what the state of mind of the woman" might be if she kills her one-month-old. She has no right to kill an innocent human being.
Does that extend to life in the womb? And if it does, then the logic that abortion is acceptable in the first trimester but not the third demands an answer as to why it would be acceptable at one point but not the other.
.@djenvy: You believe in banning abortions, right?
@benshapiro: I'm pro-life, yes.
@djenvy: Even in cases of incest and rape?
@benshapiro: Yes. If you believe life begins at conception, then regardless of the source of the life, it now has an independent interest in life.
Cohost DJ Envy then claimed Shapiro was "playing with semantics" and switched gears to bring up the argument that abortion should be allowed in cases of rape.
"If your daughter was raped," he said, "it's almost like you're saying, 'She's raped but I'm gonna make her have this child, because you say you don't believe in abortion even for rape and incest, right?"
Shaprio confirmed he does not agree with abortion for rape or incest:
The practical effect is horrible. I'm not gonna pretend that it is not emotionally horrifying, that particular situation.
The question is whether [the preborn baby] has an independent interest in life or not, and whether there is a third party involved.
If you don't agree that there's a third party deserving of protection, I totally get it. I get it. But we should understand that that's the actual conversation.
The actual conversation is about whether you believe that this is an interested third-party being. Do you get to kill this interested third-party being... or do you not?
.@benshapiro: The argument I don't like is that it's up to every single person to define when life begins.
@cthagod: I think it begins when there's a heartbeat.
@benshapiro: If life begins at the heartbeat ... you're talking about abortion restrictions very early on.
He later explained that the idea of subjectivity around when life begins is a false one:
The argument I don't like is the idea that everybody, it's up to every single person to define when life begins and when life does not begin. That actually is not true. There's either a standard or there's not a standard.
Now, you could say that life begins when the baby is independent of the mom. I think it's a very dicey biological argument...
Charlamagne jumped in to say he thinks life begins with "the heartbeat."
Shapiro replied that he thinks most Americans do, and noted that the heart begins to beat "extremely early" in pregnancy.
The human heart begins to beat just 21-22 days after fertilization — a clear sign of life.
WATCH: @benshapiro challenges @breakfastclubam on why the pro-choice stance doesn’t hold up ⬇️
"It has literally nothing to do with the woman's body. It has to do with the independent interest of the life inside the woman."
At one point, the conversation also turned to slavery in America, as well as to the extermination of Jewish people in the Holocaust.
After receiving pushback for making the comparison between those injustices and abortion, Shapiro explained:
The reason that slavery was wrong is that Black people are fully independent human beings who require the protection of the law in the same way as everyone else.
And if you're a pro-lifer, you believe that's also true of the unborn.
The Bottom Line:
It is a scientific fact that a unique human organism comes into being at fertilization, and that is the question at the center of the abortion debate.
From there, we must ask, "is it morally acceptable to kill innocent human beings who are living in the womb?" Pro-lifers say no — it's never acceptable to intentionally kill an innocent human being. They deserve the same protections from intentional killing as everyone else, regardless of the circumstances surrounding them.
That is the pro-life argument — that every member of the human species has an equal right to life and should be treated as such.
Live Action News is pro-life news and commentary from a pro-life perspective.
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